Thursday, February 11, 2016
Enda Pontellier's homosexuality is becoming more evident. One obvious sign is her shown affection towards Adele Ratignolle. Chopin discusses Edna's possible relaization of her love interests, and goes on to discuss who exactly her love interest pertains to. "That summer at Grand Isle, she began to loosen a little the mantle of reserve that had always enveloped her. There may have been-- there must have been-- influences, both sublte and apparent, working in their several ways to induce her to do this; but the most obvious was the influence of Adele Ratignolle" (Chopin 18). This quote is saying that Edna is at first opening up her eyes to what exactly she is feeling, and she then asks herself why she feels this way, and after pondering, she comes to the concluson that she takes obvious interest in Adele Ratignolle. To further this, females like herself have been understood to become homosexual because of their failure of love with men. Edna clearly indicates her struggles with male relationships. "Her marriage to Leonce Pontellier was purely an accident, in this respect resembling many other marriages which masquerade as the decrees of Fate. It was in the midst of her secret great passion that she met him. He fell in love, as men are in the habit of doing, and pressed his suit with an earnestness and ardor which left nothing to be desired" (Chopin 23-24). This quote is revealing that, she does show interest in men, but she demonstrates, in this case, that there was 'nothing to be desired' within that relationship. Leonce was one of several other male relationships that ended in failure for Edna, which leads us, as readers, to believe that Edna realizes her failures, and branches out to 'explore' a love interest with her own gender, which is subtle, but definitely present.
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I agree with you in the fact that this could be plausible, however I don't believe this to be the case. I think that she just simply looks up to her in admiration, even though there is a strong connection between the two that, I admit, can be seen. However, just because the connection is there, doesn't mean she'll act on it. She still likes guys like Robert. I don't mean to be technical, but if she is interested in Mrs. Ratignolle, she might be biromantic instead of bi- or homosexual.
ReplyDeleteShout out to Julian for articulating what I was thinking!
DeleteShout out to Julian for articulating what I was thinking!
DeleteI disagree with you Julz, biromantic is when a person is attracted to both sexes in a romantic way, but not necessarily in a sexual way. With that said, as the novel progresses, Edna and Adele make intimate gestures and call each other darling. For instance, as they made their way to the beach, the pair went arm in arm. “The two women went away one morning to the beach together, arm in arm, under the huge white sunshade.” Then, as they were talking, “Madame Ratignolle laid her hand over that of Mrs. Pontellier, which was near her. Seeing that the hand was not withdrawn, she clasped it firmly and warmly. She even stroked it a little, fondly, with the other hand, murmuring in an undertone, “Pauvre cherie”." As well as a moment that was interrupted by Robert. “She had put her head down on Madame Ratignolle’s shoulder." So I think that Edna is not biromantic, but rather homosexual.
DeleteI disagree with you Brittany because it's not like they are going to pursue a physical relationship. Especially with Robert taking up most of her thoughts. And to remind you that any romantic can go with any sexuality, I'd like to say that she could be Heterosexual but biromantic. She could be in a "relationship" with Adele but it might, and probably will, never go anywhere other than the hand holding that you are describing. Last I checked, holding hands doesn't mean that they like each other 'in a sexual way' as you stated. They could be romantically involved, but nothing more .Therefore making the better word, as of right now, biromantic. She's obviously flirting and in love with Robert since she states that she realizes the "first symptoms of infatuation"(Chopin 61) for him. So, in short, biromantic is indeed the better word until more evidence suggesting a closer relationship is found
Delete"it's not like they are going to pursue a physical relationship" -how do you know this? They definitely have an emotional connection and I believe that it could turn into a romantic relationship as well given that they are both attracted to each other emotionally and physically.
ReplyDelete"Especially with Robert taking up most of her thoughts."-when Edna was on the beach with Adele, she did not think of Robert. Not even once. She simply thought about the waves and talked to Adele. She only thought of Robert when he interrupted Adele and Edna because he was looking for them.
"And to remind you that any romantic can go with any sexuality"-Yes and your point is?
"I'd like to say that she could be Heterosexual but biromantic."-she literally said that she wasn't attracted to Leonce in any way once so ever and that she was attracted to Adele both emotionally and physically. Therefore I do not believe that she is heterosexual or biromantic. I strongly believe that she is homosexual or at least bisexual.
"She could be in a "relationship" with Adele but it might, and probably will, never go anywhere other than the hand holding that you are describing."-why? They are attracted to each other emotionally and physically, so why couldn't it go further?
"Last I checked, holding hands doesn't mean that they like each other 'in a sexual way' as you stated."-yeahhh and? She's attracted to her physically and emotionally...that could lead to sexually and she actually might be attracted to her sexually.
"They could be romantically involved, but nothing more"-umm why can't they me nothing more?
"Therefore making the better word, as of right now, biromantic."-but if she's attracted to her physically and emotionally (and very well could be sexually), then wouldn't the better word be bisexual? And then if we got further, where she tells us she's not attracted to Robert (a man) in any way (emotional, sexual, physically), then wouldn't the better word be homosexual?
"She's obviously flirting and in love with Robert since she states that she realizes the "first symptoms of infatuation"(Chopin 61) for him."-I didn't read up to page 61 yet, however she did flirt with Adele on the beach and she does admire Adele so she could be falling in love with Adele by the description you gave me.
"So, in short, biromantic is indeed the better word until more evidence suggesting a closer relationship is found"-no the better word should be either homosexual or bisexual because she is attracted to Adele (a woman) physically (which could mean sexually)
-to julz
DeleteBrittany where does it say anything about being "sexual" between them? Oh yeah, that's right, it doesn't. Except for some hand holding. I could literally go up to you and hold your hand on a beach. What would that mean? Uhh, nothing. A mother and daughter hold hands in stressful situations. Edna is in a stressful situation (her life). She isn't necessarily happy. Adele is there to support her. By the way, you haven't read up to page 61? Wow. I'm pretty sure someone's who's read up to page 105 would kinda get a sense of what's going on between them more than someone who hasn't read up to 61. SPOILER ALERT she's infatuated with Robert as I stated previously. She literally breaks down crying. END OF SPOILER ALERT. And another thing. You stated on Sophia's post that mrs. Pontellier doesn't know what love is. Then how does she know if there's a connection between her and Adele? A lot of what you said, deals with emotions or her being emotionally involved. Apparently she doesn't know what love (an emotion) is to you. That doesn't make sense with what your saying know about her being in love (an emotion) with Adele. So she's not attracted to Leonce? That's obvious. But what about Robert. Did u forget him? I mean she's only infatuated with him. There's no solid evidence that anything "sexual" (as you say) is happening between them. They have a connection, but it's not what your making it out to be. She admires and is inspired by Adele more than attracted to her.
ReplyDeleteTo brittany
DeleteUgh my original reply was too long for this because it was 5,000+ words so it's gonna be split in two parts:
Delete"Brittany where does it say anything about being "sexual" between them? Oh yeah, that's right, it doesn't."-oh my lord julz what I'm saying is, Chopin describes this very attractive woman. Edna says that she is attracted to her physically and emotionally. Put them both together? It's sexual attraction. Holding hands isn't sexual, neither is flirting, however, they could do something sexual easily because they are attracted to each other.
Delete"Except for some hand holding. I could literally go up to you and hold your hand on a beach. What would that mean? Uhh, nothing."-Umm julz you hold hands to feel comfort and love from a person. If you held my hand on a beach would I like it? Um probably not because
1. I'm not attracted to you physically.
2. I don't need comforting
3. I do not return the feelings
Hand holding is so magical, it's intimate. You feel every movement they make, you can feel their heart beat, you can feel them against your side, you can feel the love and care. It's magical. Not only that but she rubbed her hand as well, which is even better. It's not a limp hand there for show. It's her hand giving her love, care, support, and comfort.
"A mother and daughter hold hands in stressful situations. Edna is in a stressful situation (her life). She isn't necessarily happy. Adele is there to support her."-yes, they do. They do this to feel comfort, love, care, protection. You don't have to be happy to hold hands. But you need a connection in order for you to hold hands. Once Adele held Edna's hand, she said that she had never felt this much affection and care from someone. Adele supports her, she doesn't have to, but she choses to because she cares about Edna.
"By the way, you haven't read up to page 61? Wow. I'm pretty sure someone's who's read up to page 105 would kinda get a sense of what's going on between them more than someone who hasn't read up to 61. SPOILER ALERT she's infatuated with Robert as I stated previously. She literally breaks down crying. END OF SPOILER ALERT."-where do I begin with this. No I haven't read up to page 61. But what do I know so far?? That there is a strong connection between Edna and Adele, one like she's never had before, she's happy when she's with her, she feels free (the waves of the ocean represent this). infatuated means to have admiration for, Edna already said that she admires Adele. Idk why she's crying over Robert because I'm not there, but so what? Edna's stressed out! Why is he making her cry? That's the last thing she needs. She needs someone who will bring her happiness and Adele brought her that. I hate being spoiled btw so thanks for that :(
"And another thing. You stated on Sophia's post that mrs. Pontellier doesn't know what love is."-are you stalking me?
"Then how does she know if there's a connection between her and Adele?"-she seriously admitted there's a connection. I'm saying that she doesn't know what love is with a man. She has a different personality with every man she meets and non of them are the real her. The real her was with Adele on the beach. As soon as she heard Robert, she got off of Adeles shoulder and braced herself, putting back on her mask.
Delete"A lot of what you said, deals with emotions or her being emotionally involved."-she is emotionally involved
"Apparently she doesn't know what love (an emotion) is to you."-she doesn't know how to love a man. Do you know what love is? Even someone that's been in a relationship for years canopy give you the definition of love. Love isn't an emotion. It's a feeling. It's a needing.
"That doesn't make sense with what your saying know about her being in love (an emotion) with Adele."-hold up. Your putting words into my mouth. I NEVER said that Edna loves Adele.
"So she's not attracted to Leonce? That's obvious. But what about Robert. Did u forget him?"-Wow she went to a beach and laughed with Robert. W o w. She never told us that she's attracted to him, only Adele.
"I mean she's only infatuated with him."- the definition of infatuated on Merriam Webster means "admired" or "inspired by" and Edna already said that she's inspired by Adele. Sooo what's your point?? I'm inspired by people, does it mean I want to be in a relationship with them? Nope. Does it mean I'm sexually attracted to them? Nope.
"There's no solid evidence that anything "sexual" (as you say) is happening between them."-I never said anything sexual was happening, I said that if you put emotions and physical attraction together you get *drum roll please* SEXUAL ATTRACTION! And actually you don't even need the emotions in there. All you gotta do is think someone's attractive the way Edna described Adele and be sexually attracted to someone. It's not like she's saying "oh yeah Adele is nice looking ha" no she described her as angel like and so pretty that you couldn't take your eyes off of her...stunning.
"They have a connection"-indeed
"but it's not what your making it out to be."-then what is it??? She's emotionally attracted to her. She makes her happy. Truly happy. More than any man as done for her. She's shown her affection. As well as care. She choses to be with her despite her flaws. That's a connection.
"She admires and is inspired by Adele more than attracted to her."-she's also admires Robert, but just because they are straight you think that it's some BIG MAGICAL ROMANCE AND THEY ARE SOULMATES AND BOUND TO BE TOGETHER!!! No. Just no. Edna admires Adele, she described her as this stunning woman who you just couldn't take your eyes off of attractive. That's physically attractive. Then, she cares for her and likes to know what she's thinking, she doesn't want to hurt or offend her. She gets happy when she's around. She feels protected, comforted, cared about, important, needed. She doesn't have to have a mask, she's not anyone, she's simply Edna. That's emotionally attracted. She's attracted to her julz.
You literally keep repeating the same point over and over. How emotionally and physically equals sexually. Well I could be in a relationship where I'm happy emotionally and feel like Edna's feeling. However, that doesn't mean I'm going to pursue anything more physical. I could think the person is attractive but not want to take it further. Thus making it more of a -romantic than a -sexuality. Not to mention that we really can't see a real Edna after reading posts like mine where she acts differently with everyone. Not to mention, you literally said that Edna admires Adele. Isn't that what I've been saying? That she only admires Adele rather than pursuing anything more. That statement also proves delaneys post, where she looks up to Adele and Adele is like a guardian angel to her rather than a partner. And no I'm not stalking you, I just go into the comments of my friends and see who replies, which was you. Maybe you should read Delaneys since it seems that, like me, you spend way too much time on here, seeing as how you wrote a 5000+ word response
Delete"You literally keep repeating the same point over and over."-because you won't get it into your head
Delete"How emotionally and physically equals sexually."-They all can equal sexually unless she's like asexual or something, AND SHES NOT BTW.
"Well I could be in a relationship where I'm happy emotionally and feel like Edna's feeling. However, that doesn't mean I'm going to pursue anything more physical."-
"I could think the person is attractive but not want to take it further."-would you ever take it further though? Like obviously if you just started dating you wouldn't be sexual with that person, but give it a month. Would you kiss them? Or do anything sexual with them? She's not asexual. I believe that she could get to a point with Adele where sexual contact comes in. But that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that she's attracted to her sexually. I never said anything sexual ever happened between them. I said it could happen given the information we have.
"Thus making it more of a -romantic than a -sexuality."-you become sexually active with someone after you have a relationship with someone. Are they dating? No. So then they wouldn't be sexually active. If every did date, then I believe that they would be sexually active because Edna is not asexual. SHES SEXUALLY ATTRACTED TO HER I NEVER SAID THEY DID ANYTHING SEXUAL.
"Not to mention that we really can't see a real Edna after reading posts like mine where she acts differently with everyone."-no no no, in those posts we say that she acts differently around MEN. She doesn't know how to act around them. But I believe the real Edna was on the beach with Adele. She didn't have on a mask like how she does with men.
"Not to mention, you literally said that Edna admires Adele. Isn't that what I've been saying?"-if I have a crush or I'm in a relationship with someone, I admire them. Why wouldn't I admire them?
"That she only admires Adele rather than pursuing anything more."-no, she doesn't only admire Adele. She can pursue more because (omfg I've said this a million times but you won't get it though your head) she's sexually attracted to her and emotionally attracted to her. SHE CAN PURSUE MORE, SHES NOT ASEXUAL.
"That statement also proves delaneys post, where she looks up to Adele and Adele is like a guardian angel to her rather than a partner."-umm okay then... But let me tell you this, I read. Delaney's post and I agree with her that she does resemble and act like an angel. And guess what? If I thought someone was so attractive inside and out that they could be an angel, guess who would have a crush on them? Me. This woman is like an angel: she protects, cares, and comforts Edna, as well as bases her feel happy and special. Who wouldn't wanna date someone that makes you feel like that?
"And no I'm not stalking you, I just go into the comments of my friends and see who replies, which was you."-okay good, don't stalk me.
"Maybe you should read Delaneys since it seems that, like me, you spend way too much time on here, seeing as how you wrote a 5000+ word response"-leave me alone, it didn't take long. I did read Delaney's post. Excuse me, I want want some representation for the LGBT+ community, but apparently you don't. During this time period, people did not act on their sexuality if it was anything other than straight, and some people did not even recognize they were in fact gay.
Honestly, I'm tired of talking about this, since you literally are repeating and contradicting yourself. Delaney said that she literally resembles an angel and the mother Edna wants to be and wanted to have, not that she was as attractive as an angel. And I never said that they couldn't ever be closer. In my first comment I literally said "just because the connection is there, doesn't mean she'll act on it" (Me, comment 1). Until anything more is stated in the novel, I don't believe anything more than some simple handholding is going to occur. In my opinion, Edna will not act on it. In your opinion(opinion means not fact), Edna will become something more than a friend to Adele. To me, biromantic is the word. To you, she is 100% homosexual. Now that we know where each of us stand on this debate, let's take our opinions, and go elsewhere. Thank you for listening, have a nice day, I wish you luck, and goodbye.
ReplyDelete"Honestly, I'm tired of talking about this, since you literally are repeating and contradicting yourself."-when have I once contradicted myself? You won't get it through your head that Edna has ANY attraction to this woman. I'm tried of trying to get this into your head because you honestly don't want to believe me or hear me out.
Delete"Delaney said that she literally resembles an angel and the mother Edna wants to be and wanted to have, not that she was as attractive as an angel."-I'm not talking about Delaney and that's opinion sir.
"And I never said that they couldn't ever be closer."-you said that in your last post, that they would never be closer.
"In my first comment I literally said "just because the connection is there, doesn't mean she'll act on it" (Me, comment 1)."-don't go quoting yourself in Mla format. You deny any attraction between them. You refuse to believe that these two woman could like each other.
"Until anything more is stated in the novel, I don't believe anything more than some simple handholding is going to occur."-idk what's going to happen..but I know that they both are attracted to each other
"In my opinion, Edna will not act on it."-maybe your right, that's what most people did in that time period because it was not accepted.
"In your opinion(opinion means not fact), Edna will become something more than a friend to Adele."-she is something more. However, they are not in a relationship and I don't think they will be because of the time period.
"To me, biromantic is the word."-I think that homosexual is the better word, she is at least bisexual. But given that she isn't attracted to Leonce in any way suggests that she may be in fact homosexual.
"To you, she is 100% homosexual."-I never said that she's 100% homosexual. I said that she could be. She's at least bisexual. SHE DOESNT NEED TO TO HAVE DONE SOMETHING WETHER THATS HAND HOLDING OR KISSING TO BE HOMOSEXUAL!!!!!
"Now that we know where each of us stand on this debate, let's take our opinions, and go elsewhere."-I'm done talking about this, we know where we both stand and we both are not budging from those opinions. Let's just stop.
"Thank you for listening, have a nice day, I wish you luck, and goodbye."-the same to you. Goodbye.
wow there is a lot of commotion going on here.
ReplyDeleteI don't know how this happened but i love it
ReplyDeleteI'm sitting at home in bed looking through posts to comment on and I saw this and I'm in tears
ReplyDelete